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[CashPool]

Sorry, didn't realize I did my little rant twice there. Post deleted. Go back to page 12 if you wanna read my rant.

[CashPool]

I thought I'd share this little book with y'all. After having read it years ago, I listen to politics in a whole new way. Originally published in 2001, apparently there's a new 2007 edition. Haven't read that one yet. Anyway, here it is:

No Place for Amateurs: How Political Consultants are Reshaping American Democracy
by Dennis Johnson

[karenjerry]

I grew up in a poor Mill town. With 3 brothers and 3 sisters. We were taught that if you needed something you work for it. Never depend on the Government to bail you out.

As far as the 1.7 million being spent on toning down the smell of pigs.

Remember you guys in Iowa, the pigs did not choose to live there, YOU DID

We all have chocies to make and when you make your choice don't expect other people to make it comfortable for you.

This President is all about Government control which sounds good to a lot of people but believe me sooner or latter it will come back to bite you.

Scanning through the posts I notice someone refered to the wealthy as "RICH BASTARDS"

I am far from Rich , however, why should I be so judgemental toward people who have worked hard to achieve what this Country gives you the opportunity to do and that is TO BE REWARDED FOR HARD WORK AND NATURAL ABILITY

[blacklab]

Originally Posted by karenjerry

I couldn't have said it better. This man is scarey. GOD BLESS YOU THAT CAN'T SEE THROUGH HIS CARRISMA. This guy must be brought under control immediatley. We should be sending letters to our Representatives daily.

It's hard to believe this is happening

The person you quoted didn't use accurate numbers. Bush took office with around a $5.5 trillion debt and left with it over $10 trillion. The Obama stimulus is $0.8 trillion. According to Bloomberg, back in November with Bush, the real total of the bailouts was going to be $7.7 trillion. It's interesting how some people are only concerned with government spending when a Democrat is in charge.

[CashPool]

why should I be so judgemental toward people who have worked hard to achieve what this Country gives you the opportunity to do and that is TO BE REWARDED FOR HARD WORK AND NATURAL ABILITY

Because all too often that "hard work" is not also "honest work" and that "natural ability" is misappropriated.

Need we even mention Enron?
or how about:

Jerome Kerviel, who only served a two month sentence for his misdeeds and is back working in information systems for a consulting firm.

James Cayne, who was busy spending 25 million on a new condo knowing Bear Sterns was about to collapse while CEO Schwarts went on TV insisting there was no liquidity crisis for Bear Sterns. The Company collapsed 1 week later.

Broadcom Founder Henry T. Nicholas' indictment.

Richard Fuld's 240 million salary for making decisions that ran Lehman Brothers into the ground.

AIG's $500,000 spent on St Regis Resort and English hunting trips AFTER getting a bailout. These were the folks, by the way, that contributed to their own demise by participating in what amounted to an unregulated gambling business. AIG was the "house" and they went bust after all the folks they let place bets with their insurance policies came to collect.

How 'bout those big three in Detroit? In particular Mulally, of Ford. He made 21.7 million in 2007 and still went to Washington for a handout. When congress asked him what sacrifices he was willing to make for the government to help his business 'get back on it's feet', they furthered the question with a 'for example'. That 'for example' being: Would you be willing to work for $1/yr? Mulally answered: "I think I'm okay where I am."

Marc Drier busted for swindling hedge funds & attempting to peddle phony promissory notes.

No one need explain Bernie Madoff, do they?

How about Merill Lynch giving out several $209 million salaries in 2008, after having received "bail out" funds?

Bank of America spending millions on a carnival and other perks as part of a 2008 Super Bowl event, yes, after the "bail out".

John Thain spending over 1 million to redecorate his office right after a "bail out".

AIG sending their executives to a spa after a "bailout"

How about the US tax dollars (yes YOUR hard-earned money) funneled through World Bank, INF & USAD that are effectively funneled back to Kellog, Brown, Root/Halliburton, DynCorp, Blackwater, & Louis Berger Group without every helping the poor recipient countries they're supposed to be helping? WAIT before you holler about not wanting your tax dollars to help other countries in the first place, REREAD that sentence. You got your wish. Your tax dollars ain't helping poorer countries. They're going to a select group of Mega Businesses. Um, why are we being, in effect taxed to the profit of businesses? I wonder how many Mazeratti's them folks buying with them tax dollars?

How 'bout "vulture funds"? Ever heard of those? Yeah, look that one up.

Hmmm... let's see... Oh, yes, Monsanto and GM seed in India. The people there don't want it. The propaganda saying they do is most from the Neo-Liberal front. Fact is over six million farmers in India requested India's Supreme Court ban open field trials of GM seeds because of the dangers of irreversible contamination of community-held seeds from terminator seeds. Why? Oh, because they'd like to be independent where their food source is concerned. They don't want to be FORECED to do business with Monsanto & Cargil just so they can eat.

Speaking of Cargil, they're the ones that when they took their GM grain to Africa, you know, where people are quite hungry on a daily basis, those hungry African people decided they'd rather go hungry and destroyed the grain in mass quantities. What did Cargil do? Made a deal with US drug companies and went back to Africa with an ultimatum: Either you take our GM grain or you don't get your subsidized AIDS medications.

Sub-prime mortgage scandal.

How about the attempt to evade FDA regulations that led to melamine in dog food (No FDA in China)?

Or that drug, what was it? Some portion of it made in china, where the FDA can't go, ended up killing people here? Oh, well, we probably don't have to worry about that any more. As of last year, the drug companies will be running the FDA.

Oh, yeah, and Mattel. Seeking cheap labor and regulation evasion in China and then we get toys full of lead.

The Conrad Black "Hollinger" scandal...

Remember them square GM tomatoes that nobody in this country wanted? That company was about to bankrupt for making a product nobody wanted so, they went through the WTO to try and force other countries to change their laws refusing to allow GM foods onto their markets.

Nestle. What was that South American country that did a community service campaign to promote breast-feeding? Argentina? I think it was Argentina. Nestle started looking at their books and noticing profits were down. When they ran it down they discovered forumla sales were down in Argentina. WTO to the rescue! A little strong-arming there and sales went back up. Bye-bye breast-feeding initiative.

US tax dollars going to contractors "rebuilding" Iraq who are using the "human trade" business to get cheap, er, uh, or is that FREE labor?

How 'bout those US/EU FTA's? Who cares if we starve some little foreign farmer of his right to till his own land, plant his own seeds and sell his little vegetables. Cargil/Monsanto's right to be "rewarded" for their "hard work" of devising FTA's that remove a person's most basic form of autonomy is just so much more important. And hey, it's not like they're doing that to the American people (YET)

How 'bout patents on plants? FTA's are doing that now. No, I don't mean plant derived substances and I don't mean hybrid designs, I mean PLANTS. Under certain FTA's US/EU companies now have the right to patent a plant as long as they can uncover and record it's genetic structure. Here it comes folks... You wanna grow some more tomatoes this year from the seeds you collected from tomato plants last year? Too bad. Them seeds are patented. They ain't yours. Gotta go buy some more seeds. How 'bout that house plant you love so dearly? Well, it's genetic structure has just been patented by Cargil or the likes, and you now have to pay a yearly fee to have your plants.

Geez, I gotta go, I'll be here all day... and night... and day... and night...

I got no problem with someone running a business and becoming a billionaire, really. I got a problem when they got to beat people into something they don't want to do or suck the life out of others to get it. It's at that point that I start asking "Hey! Ain't a billion dollars enough for you?"

[karenjerry]

Originally Posted by blacklab

The person you quoted didn't use accurate numbers. Bush took office with around a $5.5 trillion debt and left with it over $10 trillion. The Obama stimulus is $0.8 trillion. According to Bloomberg, back in November with Bush, the real total of the bailouts was going to be $7.7 trillion. It's interesting how some people are only concerned with government spending when a Democrat is in charge.

Because that's when the majority of the spending takes place.

[CashPool]

Because that's when the majority of the spending takes place.

????

Let's try this again. See these folks right here >>>> Us Department of Treasury, Bureau of Public Debt

That's what some might call "The Horses Mouth." They keep track of the deficit, to the penny, every single day. You can find them here:

treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np (You don't have to believe me, go talk to the horse.)

This is what "The Horses Mouth" says:

From 1981 - 1992 government spending went from 99 billion to 399 billion. (it went up)

From 1993 - 2000 government spending went from 347 billion to 18 billion. (it went down)

From 2001 to January 2008 government spending went from 133 billion to over 10 trillion. (Um, I don't know, I think UP, don't you?)

Now, maybe I need to reread my recent history, but tell me again who was in office during each of those time spans?

You folks do understand that it's SPENDING that causes the deficit, right? I mean, you do see how it is that the deficit tells us who's doing most of the spending, don't ya? I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something. Am I missing something?

[blacklab]

Originally Posted by karenjerry

Because that's when the majority of the spending takes place.

The last time that was true was when Richard Nixon was President, almost 35 years ago. He was the last Republican to spend less than the Democrat Presidents.

[shanladams]

Originally Posted by CashPool

Because all too often that "hard work" is not also "honest work" and that "natural ability" is misappropriated.

Need we even mention Enron?
or how about:

Jerome Kerviel, who only served a two month sentence for his misdeeds and is back working in information systems for a consulting firm.

James Cayne, who was busy spending 25 million on a new condo knowing Bear Sterns was about to collapse while CEO Schwarts went on TV insisting there was no liquidity crisis for Bear Sterns. The Company collapsed 1 week later.

Broadcom Founder Henry T. Nicholas' indictment.

Richard Fuld's 240 million salary for making decisions that ran Lehman Brothers into the ground.

AIG's $500,000 spent on St Regis Resort and English hunting trips AFTER getting a bailout. These were the folks, by the way, that contributed to their own demise by participating in what amounted to an unregulated gambling business. AIG was the "house" and they went bust after all the folks they let place bets with their insurance policies came to collect.

How 'bout those big three in Detroit? In particular Mulally, of Ford. He made 21.7 million in 2007 and still went to Washington for a handout. When congress asked him what sacrifices he was willing to make for the government to help his business 'get back on it's feet', they furthered the question with a 'for example'. That 'for example' being: Would you be willing to work for $1/yr? Mulally answered: "I think I'm okay where I am."

Marc Drier busted for swindling hedge funds & attempting to peddle phony promissory notes.

No one need explain Bernie Madoff, do they?

How about Merill Lynch giving out several $209 million salaries in 2008, after having received "bail out" funds?

Bank of America spending millions on a carnival and other perks as part of a 2008 Super Bowl event, yes, after the "bail out".

John Thain spending over 1 million to redecorate his office right after a "bail out".

AIG sending their executives to a spa after a "bailout"

How about the US tax dollars (yes YOUR hard-earned money) funneled through World Bank, INF & USAD that are effectively funneled back to Kellog, Brown, Root/Halliburton, DynCorp, Blackwater, & Louis Berger Group without every helping the poor recipient countries they're supposed to be helping? WAIT before you holler about not wanting your tax dollars to help other countries in the first place, REREAD that sentence. You got your wish. Your tax dollars ain't helping poorer countries. They're going to a select group of Mega Businesses. Um, why are we being, in effect taxed to the profit of businesses? I wonder how many Mazeratti's them folks buying with them tax dollars?

How 'bout "vulture funds"? Ever heard of those? Yeah, look that one up.

Hmmm... let's see... Oh, yes, Monsanto and GM seed in India. The people there don't want it. The propaganda saying they do is most from the Neo-Liberal front. Fact is over six million farmers in India requested India's Supreme Court ban open field trials of GM seeds because of the dangers of irreversible contamination of community-held seeds from terminator seeds. Why? Oh, because they'd like to be independent where their food source is concerned. They don't want to be FORECED to do business with Monsanto & Cargil just so they can eat.

Speaking of Cargil, they're the ones that when they took their GM grain to Africa, you know, where people are quite hungry on a daily basis, those hungry African people decided they'd rather go hungry and destroyed the grain in mass quantities. What did Cargil do? Made a deal with US drug companies and went back to Africa with an ultimatum: Either you take our GM grain or you don't get your subsidized AIDS medications.

Sub-prime mortgage scandal.

How about the attempt to evade FDA regulations that led to melamine in dog food (No FDA in China)?

Or that drug, what was it? Some portion of it made in china, where the FDA can't go, ended up killing people here? Oh, well, we probably don't have to worry about that any more. As of last year, the drug companies will be running the FDA.

Oh, yeah, and Mattel. Seeking cheap labor and regulation evasion in China and then we get toys full of lead.

The Conrad Black "Hollinger" scandal...

Remember them square GM tomatoes that nobody in this country wanted? That company was about to bankrupt for making a product nobody wanted so, they went through the WTO to try and force other countries to change their laws refusing to allow GM foods onto their markets.

Nestle. What was that South American country that did a community service campaign to promote breast-feeding? Argentina? I think it was Argentina. Nestle started looking at their books and noticing profits were down. When they ran it down they discovered forumla sales were down in Argentina. WTO to the rescue! A little strong-arming there and sales went back up. Bye-bye breast-feeding initiative.

US tax dollars going to contractors "rebuilding" Iraq who are using the "human trade" business to get cheap, er, uh, or is that FREE labor?

How 'bout those US/EU FTA's? Who cares if we starve some little foreign farmer of his right to till his own land, plant his own seeds and sell his little vegetables. Cargil/Monsanto's right to be "rewarded" for their "hard work" of devising FTA's that remove a person's most basic form of autonomy is just so much more important. And hey, it's not like they're doing that to the American people (YET)

How 'bout patents on plants? FTA's are doing that now. No, I don't mean plant derived substances and I don't mean hybrid designs, I mean PLANTS. Under certain FTA's US/EU companies now have the right to patent a plant as long as they can uncover and record it's genetic structure. Here it comes folks... You wanna grow some more tomatoes this year from the seeds you collected from tomato plants last year? Too bad. Them seeds are patented. They ain't yours. Gotta go buy some more seeds. How 'bout that house plant you love so dearly? Well, it's genetic structure has just been patented by Cargil or the likes, and you now have to pay a yearly fee to have your plants.

Geez, I gotta go, I'll be here all day... and night... and day... and night...

I got no problem with someone running a business and becoming a billionaire, really. I got a problem when they got to beat people into something they don't want to do or suck the life out of others to get it. It's at that point that I start asking "Hey! Ain't a billion dollars enough for you?"

You are absolutely right. That is exactly the kind of rich people that people have a problem with. Its the greedy, sneaky ones that use and abuse others to get their money that I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with Warren Buffet or Bill Gates or any other people who have worked hard and gotten where they are at.

How about this. Here is a nice example of corporate greed. Hubby works for Delta airlines. He works on the ramp in a position called "ready reserve" basically they get no benefits except for a certain amount of free flights. They used to have a lot of part timers and full timers. They were forced out with early retirement packages but instead of letting any of the ready reserve move to those positions they just hired more ready reserve. Fed Ex is doing the same thing they laid off all the full timers and just have the part timers doing everything. Less benefits either company has to pay and lower pay scales to the people who aren't working full time. Saves them money. (We aren't complaining about ready reserve by the way he picked that position over the part time for the flexible schedule since its his 2nd job)

Here is the executive pay before the merger with Northwest and after the merger. I will tell you the company isn't any better since they merged. They don't get as many bonuses as they used to. All of the long time Delta employees got their pensions frozen. All the employees got some stock because of the buyout but look at where thats at right now (worth 11 something when it was received now worth 4/share). They didn't even get their profit sharing check this year because their profit dropped in 08 but look at the difference in what the execs got paid in 06 compared to 07.

2006 Compensation for OLD Delta Family

Gerald Grinstein - Chief Executive Officer - $343,402
James M. Whitehurst - Chief Operating Officer - $417,370
Edward H. Bastian - Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer - $443,369
Glen W. Hauenstein - Executive Vice President, Network Planning and Revenue Management - $388,882
Joseph C. Kolshak - Executive Vice President, Operations - $386,675
Paul G. Matsen - Formerly Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer - $549,894


2007 Compensation for NEW Delta Family

Richard H. Anderson - Chief Executive Officer - $11,296,759
Edward H. Bastian - President and Chief Financial Officer - $10,298,340
Michael H. Campbell - Executive Vice President, HR, Labor and Communications - $6,380,261
Glen W. Hauenstein - Executive Vice President, Network Planning and Revenue Management - $7,333,300
Lee A. Macenczak - Executive Vice President, Sales and Marketing - $5,939,836
Gerald Grinstein - Retired Chief Executive Officer - $357,941
James M. Whitehurst - Former Chief Operating Officer - $15,451,426

Exactly why are these new execs that haven't made the company get any better, haven't made it more profitable getting millions of dollars more then the people before them. And the ex-ceo is making less retired then his retired 2nd in command is. Can we say golden parachute. Thats not a little increase for cost of living or for an annual increase. Thats an almost 11 million dollar difference in the current CEO and the old CEO and all the while they are taking away everyone's benefits and offering "early retirement" packages to get rid of anyone they pay benefits to. Oh and did I forget to mention all of the customers that are affected to. Now you get to pay $50 for your first bag and $25 for your 2nd when you used to get your 1st free. You also have to pay anywhere from $6-20 to get anything on the plane as well which all used to be complimentary.

[karenjerry]

Originally Posted by CashPool

????

Let's try this again. See these folks right here >>>> Us Department of Treasury, Bureau of Public Debt

That's what some might call "The Horses Mouth." They keep track of the deficit, to the penny, every single day. You can find them here:

treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np (You don't have to believe me, go talk to the horse.)

This is what "The Horses Mouth" says:

From 1981 - 1992 government spending went from 99 billion to 399 billion. (it went up)

From 1993 - 2000 government spending went from 347 billion to 18 billion. (it went down)

From 2001 to January 2008 government spending went from 133 billion to over 10 trillion. (Um, I don't know, I think UP, don't you?)

Now, maybe I need to reread my recent history, but tell me again who was in office during each of those time spans?

You folks do understand that it's SPENDING that causes the deficit, right? I mean, you do see how it is that the deficit tells us who's doing most of the spending, don't ya? I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something. Am I missing something?

First of all - It isn't what you are missing - it is what you will be missing, such as:

(1) The ability to decide without the Governments approval

(2) Liberty and Justice for all

(3) Charitable funded organizations - expecially the Church - but what does that matter?

(4) Part of your income - In order to pay someone else's mortgage - (and who forced the banks to distribute these loans to people who had no chance of paying them back) Could it be that Mr. or Mrs or whatever he or she or whatever this outstanding Government official prefixes his or her name with, Barney Frank , had anything to do with it? (AND BEFORE YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING ANTI GAY) You can forget it because God loves us all the same. I have enough of my own faults without tackling others.
- Just a little humor injection -

(5) The opportunity to help your children and grand-children pay back this figure that will be off the charts before this man leaves the White House.

(6) The improvement of our economy - since we are borrowing this money from the Country of China
(using Lord knows what for calateral) and then taking the money and spending it on products that you turn upside down and read the words "MADE IN CHINA" or "MADE IN JAPAN" or "MADE IN YOU NAME IT". Where does the profit end up.

(7) Hours of sleep , wandering when the next terroists attack will take place, (Of course I should be able to see that protecting our families is a useless war)

(8) Millions of jobs - due to the fact that his approach to solving the crisis he inhiereted has and never will work.

(9) The ability to defend ourselves. Due to a major cutback in the budget for our military force that has always proven that you stay strong militarily in order to not have to use that military might. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN - " REMEMBER THE BULLY IN SCHOOL WHO ONLY PICKED ON THE KIDS WHO SHOWED NO EVIDENCE OF BEING ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES"

(10) A President with the Countries best interest in mind - NOT HIS OWN.

I will stop at an even number of 10, I could go on and on but I wan't.

Your figures and the knowledge of politics are very impressive, however, Let's
note one little three letter word - very slowly are you ready - That word is NOW

Since your President, and mine, has been in office (all of 45 days) the Government spending is - Here it comes pay attention - N-O-W up about a trillion dollars and growing by leaps and bounds.

The stock market is the lowest it has been since 1997 - Who was in office then ?

Over 1/2 of the American people have lost the majority of their retirement

Our President is getting ready to introduce his version of the Hiliary Clinton - Health care Reform - Which since we are on the subject - Being a consevative, I would like to say that I am very disappointed in the comment that Rush Liembaugh made concerning this bill being called the "Kennedy Memorial Health care plan". I do not consider this statement at all funny and would like to thank Mr. Kennedy for the many years that he has served our Country. God Bless him and his family as they go through this horrific experience.

The health care plan by the way will be funded with MY MONEY since I am retired and have an advantage healthcare plan. As I am sure you know , he is planning to take my policy and give it to the young welfare population. Which is only fair since I don't have that many years left (at least on this earth).
Can you top that for compassion?