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[Lesley]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Your original point was that the government was spying on people and this is nothing even related to that. They're simply stating that if you feel that you have received information that you think is suspicious, you can report to them. In no way is your first amendment rights even being touched. There aren't any consequences of reporting anything. There isn't anything to read into that statement other than them looking to make sure that the information about the health care is correct on what is being done.

Also this has nothing to do with the Privacy Act. The government isn't releasing any information about you.

No, my original point was that the government was encouraging citizens to monitor and report on, therefore spy on, each others conversations and correspondence. Suspicious, Fishy, use any term that you choose. It's not OK in my book and, while I still have the right to voice my opinion, I will stand up against such tactics. Again, we're not talking about potential criminal behavior, just those who may voice opinions that differ from those coming out of the White House.

The possible consequences, if any, would come later. What do they plan to do with this information once they have it? And if they have no plans (use) for it, why collect it? Hence, the slippery slope.

As for correct information about health care reform, on many points it is left open to debate as very limited information has been published on the White House web site despite the policy of "transparency" we hear about but, sadly, rarely see. Beyond that, if the government starts monitoring everything published on the internet to be sure it is "correct" in their narrow and skewed view then again, we are heading for a slippery slope.

This is, at the very least, outrageous. If it doesn't feel right, if it makes us uncomfortable, then we should, and do, have the right to speak out and be heard by our government. To encourage this type of reporting over open and honest debate goes against what our founding fathers envisioned for America.

The Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. § 552a, establishes a code of fair information practice that governs the collection, maintenance, use, and dissemination of personally identifiable information about individuals that is maintained in systems of records by federal agencies. A system of records is a group of records under the control of an agency from which information is retrieved by the name of the individual or by some identifier assigned to the individual. The Privacy Act requires that agencies give the public notice of their systems of records by publication in the Federal Register. The Privacy Act prohibits the disclosure of information from a system of records absent the written consent of the subject individual, unless the disclosure is pursuant to one of twelve statutory exceptions. The Act also provides individuals with a means by which to seek access to and amendment of their records, and sets forth various agency record-keeping requirements.

And then they came for me:

Martin Niemöller's poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear which soon escalates out of control.

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

In America, at least as of yesterday, we could disagree with the policies of the current administration with out fear of being monitored and grouped together for...what? I don't know, but I feel very sad today. Anyone is free to disagree with me, I only ask that you think about what I am trying to say and consider the possible implications.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Lesley

No, my original point was that the government was encouraging citizens to monitor and report on, therefore spy on, each others conversations and correspondence.

You're recreating a definition of spying. Them having an email address open for people to submit information is not spying. Spying requires them actively going after information. They're not doing that.

Originally Posted by Lesley

Suspicious, Fishy, use any term that you choose. It's not OK in my book and, while I still have the right to voice my opinion, I will stand up against such tactics. Again, we're not talking about potential criminal behavior, just those who may voice opinions that differ from those coming out of the White House.

You can say whatever you want. They're not doing to go after you for that. No where in that statement do they say you can't voice your opinion.

Originally Posted by Lesley

The possible consequences, if any, would come later. What do they plan to do with this information once they have it? And if they have no plans (use) for it, why collect it? Hence, the slippery slope.

They plan to correct the information that is reported. They aren't going to go after anyone for voicing their opinion on healthcare. This email is simply the equivalent of a hotline where you can find more information about what information you're hearing about healthcare.

Originally Posted by Lesley

As for correct information about health care reform, on many points it is left open to debate as very limited information has been published on the White House web site despite the policy of "transparency" we hear about but, sadly, rarely see. Beyond that, if the government starts monitoring everything published on the internet to be sure it is "correct" in their narrow and skewed view then again, we are heading for a slippery slope.

Just watch CSPAN or call your local representative. All bills and policies are open to the public. The problem is, no one bothers to read them. If you want to read all 1018 pages, go right ahead
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Originally Posted by Lesley

This is, at the very least, outrageous. If it doesn't feel right, if it makes us uncomfortable, then we should, and do, have the right to speak out and be heard by our government. To encourage this type of reporting over open and honest debate goes against what our founding fathers envisioned for America.[/COLOR]

No one is questioning your right to voice your opinion. Debate is always welcome. This reporting isn't reporting a crime. Voicing your opinion isn't a crime so there's no consequences here. It doesn't suggest substituting debate over reporting whatever a person may read.

Originally Posted by Lesley

The Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. § 552a, establishes a code of fair information practice that governs the collection, maintenance, use, and dissemination of personally identifiable information about individuals that is maintained in systems of records by federal agencies. A system of records is a group of records under the control of an agency from which information is retrieved by the name of the individual or by some identifier assigned to the individual. The Privacy Act requires that agencies give the public notice of their systems of records by publication in the Federal Register. The Privacy Act prohibits the disclosure of information from a system of records absent the written consent of the subject individual, unless the disclosure is pursuant to one of twelve statutory exceptions. The Act also provides individuals with a means by which to seek access to and amendment of their records, and sets forth various agency record-keeping requirements.

You're misinterpreting the words that are there, you need to read the entire sentence within context.

I'll break it down what that paragraph says:

1) Let's say someone sends a statement I made to that email address and for whatever reason.
2) They aren't collecting the information being sent. The person that sent the information is.
3) The government isn't releasing any information that's personally identifying to me. The conversation is completely between the person that reported it and the person that replies to the email.
4) That's it. My privacy isn't being invaded at all.

Originally Posted by Lesley

In America, at least as of yesterday, we could disagree with the policies of the current administration with out fear of being monitored and grouped together for...what? I don't know, but I feel very sad today. Anyone is free to disagree with me, I only ask that you think about what I am trying to say and consider the possible implications.[/B]

I'm always open for debate. We can do that. There's absolutely nothing to fear here though. It's a simple statement offering an outlet for those who feel that they think the information they're reading may not be correct and can send it there to get another opinion on it from an official source.


There's a lot of misinformation being sent out by media and it can be very hard to determine what's true. I'm not saying this is a left or right winged problem. You just have to take all of the information in and make a decision based on what you think would be the best for the country (for course yourself as well). I learned quickly that watching any 24 hour media coverage of anything is not the way to get the most accurate information on any topic.

[Penney]

Lesley, I totally agree with you, and the more I learn and see about what is happening to our country, I too, like you, have so many concerns.

The problems are like the magician. You are so focused on the big move, that you don't see all the smaller moves!! It is all the subtle things that are taking place, that will mold the what the New America will be.

Things that are happening will reshape what our contry is, and are not things that will easily be able to be reversed~~if at all.

It took us many years to get so far away from what the constitution and the founding Fathers set up as our government. Now, we are going at a faster rate and so far from that, I am worried that we will one day not even recognize this to be the America that you and I have been so proud of, that so many have shed their lives for, and that we have given up on.

I feel that the government has one job, and that is to keep us safe, and to deal wiht foreign governments. All else should be left to the states and it's people. I look at all that the government has taken over and run, and how ineffective operations they are. Can someone, anyone, name one thing that the government runs better then the private sector?

[stokesa42]

Originally Posted by Penney

Lesley, I totally agree with you, and the more I learn and see about what is happening to our country, I too, like you, have so many concerns.

The problems are like the magician. You are so focused on the big move, that you don't see all the smaller moves!! It is all the subtle things that are taking place, that will mold the what the New America will be.

Things that are happening will reshape what our contry is, and are not things that will easily be able to be reversed~~if at all.

It took us many years to get so far away from what the constitution and the founding Fathers set up as our government. Now, we are going at a faster rate and so far from that, I am worried that we will one day not even recognize this to be the America that you and I have been so proud of, that so many have shed their lives for, and that we have given up on.

I feel that the government has one job, and that is to keep us safe, and to deal wiht foreign governments. All else should be left to the states and it's people. I look at all that the government has taken over and run, and how ineffective operations they are. Can someone, anyone, name one thing that the government runs better then the private sector?

Not a thing!

But I am so glad that my tax dollars are being given to people to go and buy a new car. Can you say redistribution of wealth. I am looking to see a massive amount of repo's in the next year. Then it will be just like the housing market foreclosures. And let's not forget the massive amount of perfectly good cars being destroyed instead of selling them at auction or even giving them to people who may need them to go to work. That is IF they have a job. Awesome America! You made a GREAT CHOICE! CHANGE you don't have a CHOICE but to believe in NOW!

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Penney

Lesley, I totally agree with you, and the more I learn and see about what is happening to our country, I too, like you, have so many concerns.

The problems are like the magician. You are so focused on the big move, that you don't see all the smaller moves!! It is all the subtle things that are taking place, that will mold the what the New America will be.

Things that are happening will reshape what our contry is, and are not things that will easily be able to be reversed~~if at all.

It took us many years to get so far away from what the constitution and the founding Fathers set up as our government. Now, we are going at a faster rate and so far from that, I am worried that we will one day not even recognize this to be the America that you and I have been so proud of, that so many have shed their lives for, and that we have given up on.

I feel that the government has one job, and that is to keep us safe, and to deal wiht foreign governments. All else should be left to the states and it's people. I look at all that the government has taken over and run, and how ineffective operations they are. Can someone, anyone, name one thing that the government runs better then the private sector?

So you think that the government can't run Medicare which tens millions of seniors rely on? You think that this healthcare system works for the 50 million Americans that don't have health insurance? The US healthcare system is the laughing stock of the industrialize world. We're the only country that spends more on healthcare to receive less than what any other industrialized country gets. I would love to see the sources of where you read that other government run healthcare is inefficient.

[Lesley]

It is common knowledge that Medicare is projected to run out of money within the next decade.

Could You Die Faster? Medicare’s Broke. - CBS MoneyWatch.com

Medicare Broke by 2019; Seven Years Earleir Than Predicted

Report: Medicare to go broke by 2019 - Politics- msnbc.com

[cm1979]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

So you think that the government can't run Medicare which tens millions of seniors rely on? You think that this healthcare system works for the 50 million Americans that don't have health insurance? The US healthcare system is the laughing stock of the industrialize world. We're the only country that spends more on healthcare to receive less than what any other industrialized country gets. I would love to see the sources of where you read that other government run healthcare is inefficient.

I totally agree with you.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Lesley

It is common knowledge that Medicare is projected to run out of money within the next decade.

Could You Die Faster? Medicare’s Broke. - CBS MoneyWatch.com

Medicare Broke by 2019; Seven Years Earleir Than Predicted

Report: Medicare to go broke by 2019 - Politics- msnbc.com

Of course it is. All of the baby boomers are on it and will be on it for the next decade at least. That's another reason why we need healthcare reform.

[sue]

Maybe not my business but, I will give it a shot anyways.

See here in Canada, people tend to think medicare is free, but not really. I mean you can go to a doctor, or to a hospital for surgery or whatever, won't cost anything, you just give your medic card.


What the government does, they have everybody give a small slice on their paychecks every week, that pays for everybody, you will say its not fair, I never go to the docs, why should I pay. Well we all do at some point, our kids or mom, dad.

So why not all chunk in, and not stress if we get sick, stress kills.

Just my 2 cents.

Sue

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Of course it is. All of the baby boomers are on it and will be on it for the next decade at least. That's another reason why we need healthcare reform.

[Lesley]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Of course it is. All of the baby boomers are on it and will be on it for the next decade at least. That's another reason why we need healthcare reform.

Of COURSE we need health care reform! It is just too important to risk getting it wrong. If the government takes over and runs a health care system modeled after Medicare we risk multiplying current inefficiencies and producing huge deficets while ending up with less choice and, potentially, lower quality of care.

It is time to figure out exactly where we are going wrong and fix those problems first. We're all in this together and Medicare for all, in its current state, isn't the answer.