FreeLunchRoom - The #1 Freebie Trading Forum on the Internet! » Having Fun & Socializing » Break Room / Off-Topic » Regional Chatter

[Lesley]

Originally Posted by blacklab

The point is that a lot of the angry Rush Limbaugh types that are now complaining had absolutely no problem with Bush or Reagan running up the highest debts in history. If Joe Biden goes on tv tomorrow and says that the national debt doesn't matter, then they would be all over him. The very same people who backed up Cheney when he said that.

You have Republicans like Ron Paul who will call it the way they see it no matter if a D or an R is the president. Then you have others who somehow didn't manage to notice that the government was on it's biggest spending spree ever during the last 8 years. Even if you take out the extra war funding, it was still record spending.

I appreciate your reply blacklab! I am only vaguely aware of the reasoning behind Reagan's deficit philosophy. Although I do believe it was to force consumers, as well as the next administration, to control spending. I don't see that happening here.

I've been married to a "tow the party line" Republican for a VERY long time. I love my husband with all my heart, but that kind of mindless thinking is infuriating as well as unproductive no matter which side of the isle it originates from.

As for Joe, if I only had a brain, Biden...lets just agree the guy is not the best example of our current administration...you know?!?

[qmiller]

Wow...its really cool listening to this debate. I've never ever been big on politics--but it is a very interesting subject, always seems to get people emotional. lol. Im not gonna talk about things I dont really know about all that well but I will say this....Things are gonna get worse before they get better.

[CashPool]

I am only vaguely aware of the reasoning behind Reagan's deficit philosophy. Although I do believe it was to force consumers, as well as the next administration, to control spending.

Woooo Lordy, Lordy, Honey! I tell ya what's done gone missin' in this country is some good ol' fashioned common sense. Ain't nobody wid' a good mind can possibly think handing the American people and/or a successive administration a huge fiscal deficit could be considered a form of "discipline" designed to teach someone a lesson about how to handle money. I'm sorry, that's the same kind of reasoning that leads really bad parents to believe that the best way to teach their children to behave is to burn 'em with a hot iron. If that's what Reagan was thinkin', he was a Fool. I might be treading a bit on the thread-crapping warning with this paragraph. If so, slap my nose, I'll get back under the porch.

As far as the pig farts go, I can take a fairly good stab at exactly what's behind that crap. And, it's not crazy at all once you get to know "who's really running the world" and you really start watching the big movers and shakers. What it is, is very clever. What they want to do with the information they get from studying "pig farts" (really all livestock farts) is figure out how much damage they're supposedly doing to the environment and then fine farmers for the damage their livestock "farts" are supposedly doing to the environment. Now just exactly who do you think that's going to harm (aside from the little tax payer like you and me)? The small farmer, of course! They won't be able to afford the fines, I guarantee you. It will run more and more of them out of business. And who do you think would rather see the small farmer run out of business??? The mega "farming corporations" of course: i.e. Montsanto, Cargill. Yeah, it's a sham on the American people, but it's a sham to use our money to run mega-business' competitors out of business. What I think is both sad and funny about this is that the neo-cons of the right actually manage to pull off convincing a rather significant portion of the population in this country that this kind of stuff is liberal bull-crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not way left or way right. I don't believe for a second even one person in the upper echelons of politics in this country is up there primarily for nary one of us. I believe there are a small handful who still have the ideal of working for us "little folk" somewhere in their hearts and they'll throw us a bone when they can. And I believe those folks exist on the right and on the left. But, no one who's skirmished on the higher playing fields of the business of politics any real amount of time, has done so without being largely disabused of truly noble notions. And right now, that concerns me about Obama. I think his heart, in some ways, holds lots of Noble notions. But, he was just a US Senator and he hadn't held that position for long before he became president. I personally prefer it when our presidents have at least had the responsibility of running an entire state. I think they're far more well trained to play down-and-dirty hardball if they have to (And, believe me, they will have to).

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm still taking a "wait and see" attitude.

Now, where that stimulus is concerned, it totaled 787 billion even with the pork barrel spending. That bail out, however, now that's what got us tilting the trillions - 8.5 trillion committed, 2 trillion already spent. We don't need to be teaching mega businesses that they can run a corporation into the ground and get rewarded for it. What we should be doing is taking every last one of those stinking executives and making them work their executive positions for rest of their lives for near-prison wages while the executive paychecks they're earning go to salvage the business they ran into the ground. I'm thinking this is what they get: 3 banquet frozen meals per day: (approx $1379/yr to feed one). $10 worth of Salvation Army clothing per month: ($120/yr to clothe one). A mattress in a transitional shelter house: (approx. $1800/yr to shelter one). Keeping our country from deep doo-doo debt: Priceless.

[CashPool]

OK, it's 2AM and I've JUST GOT TO GO TO BED now. I've had my but glued to this seat tracking down the "pig fart" rumor. I've still got quite a bit of print to wade thru but so far I think it's safe to say "it ain't true". I'll get back with details from "the horses mouth".

As far as the national debt is concerned. This is "from the horses mouth", U.S. Department of the Treasury, Bureau of the Public Debt. As of January 20, 2009, the day Obama took office the "total public debt outstanding (i.e. the national debt) was: $10,626,877,048,913.08. As of 2/26/09 the "total public debt outstanding" is: 10,837,499,231,127.11 - that's approx. 210.5 billion more than when Obama took office.

Oh, man, I've got to go to bed. I'll finish crunching the real numbers and what they say tomorrow.

[Lesley]

Originally Posted by CashPool

Woooo Lordy, Lordy, Honey! I tell ya what's done gone missin' in this country is some good ol' fashioned common sense. Ain't nobody wid' a good mind can possibly think handing the American people and/or a successive administration a huge fiscal deficit could be considered a form of "discipline" designed to teach someone a lesson about how to handle money. I'm sorry, that's the same kind of reasoning that leads really bad parents to believe that the best way to teach their children to behave is to burn 'em with a hot iron. If that's what Reagan was thinkin', he was a Fool. I might be treading a bit on the thread-crapping warning with this paragraph. If so, slap my nose, I'll get back under the porch.

I find your way of wording things to be very amusing and, thankfully, informed! I agree, it sounds backwards to me too. But whatever he did, and I don't pretend to know the details as it was well before my time, it did work. History proves that Reagan's economics did really good things for our Country.

As far as the pig farts go, I can take a fairly good stab at exactly what's behind that crap. And, it's not crazy at all once you get to know "who's really running the world" and you really start watching the big movers and shakers. What it is, is very clever. What they want to do with the information they get from studying "pig farts" (really all livestock farts) is figure out how much damage they're supposedly doing to the environment and then fine farmers for the damage their livestock "farts" are supposedly doing to the environment. Now just exactly who do you think that's going to harm (aside from the little tax payer like you and me)? The small farmer, of course! They won't be able to afford the fines, I guarantee you. It will run more and more of them out of business. And who do you think would rather see the small farmer run out of business??? The mega "farming corporations" of course: i.e. Montsanto, Cargill. Yeah, it's a sham on the American people, but it's a sham to use our money to run mega-business' competitors out of business. What I think is both sad and funny about this is that the neo-cons of the right actually manage to pull off convincing a rather significant portion of the population in this country that this kind of stuff is liberal bull-crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not way left or way right. I don't believe for a second even one person in the upper echelons of politics in this country is up there primarily for nary one of us. I believe there are a small handful who still have the ideal of working for us "little folk" somewhere in their hearts and they'll throw us a bone when they can. And I believe those folks exist on the right and on the left. But, no one who's skirmished on the higher playing fields of the business of politics any real amount of time, has done so without being largely disabused of truly noble notions. And right now, that concerns me about Obama. I think his heart, in some ways, holds lots of Noble notions. But, he was just a US Senator and he hadn't held that position for long before he became president. I personally prefer it when our presidents have at least had the responsibility of running an entire state. I think they're far more well trained to play down-and-dirty hardball if they have to (And, believe me, they will have to).

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm still taking a "wait and see" attitude. Again, I agree.

Now, where that stimulus is concerned, it totaled 787 billion even with the pork barrel spending. That bail out, however, now that's what got us tilting the trillions - 8.5 trillion committed, 2 trillion already spent. We don't need to be teaching mega businesses that they can run a corporation into the ground and get rewarded for it. What we should be doing is taking every last one of those stinking executives and making them work their executive positions for rest of their lives for near-prison wages while the executive paychecks they're earning go to salvage the business they ran into the ground. I'm thinking this is what they get: 3 banquet frozen meals per day: (approx $1379/yr to feed one). $10 worth of Salvation Army clothing per month: ($120/yr to clothe one). A mattress in a transitional shelter house: (approx. $1800/yr to shelter one). Keeping our country from deep doo-doo debt: Priceless.

SO refreshing to hear from someone who is as fed up with the LOC (load of crap) we are constantly fed and too many of us swallow without a second thought. More of us should be angry and that anger should force us into motion. Nobody in government, OK almost nobody, is truly looking out for the average Joe. We need to pay attention and we need to speak out!

I'll dig up more info on the "Pork Odor and manure Management earmark...

OK, here we go...

From Associated Content/ConnieWilson

$1.8 Million Dollars to Ames, Courtesy of Tom Harkin, to Study Swine S***....Errr, Excrement

Jindahl might well have earned some points from Republican detractors by mentioning just a few of the earmarks that seem to have crept into the stimulus bill, such as the following:

1) $200,000 to Los Angeles to study tattoo removal

2) $443,000 to study beavers in Massachusetts

3) $2.2 million for a grape center in New York

4) $127,000 to study blackbird management in Kansas.

5) $1 million, 45,000 to study Mormon crickets.

6) $1 million to North Pole, Alaska, for a water treatment plant.

7) $3 million for a poultry study proposed by Saxby Chambliss and Kingson.

8) $1.8 million shepherded through to Ames, Iowa (Iowa State University) by Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa to study swine odor and manure management.

As a $410 billion-dollar bill is now pending to keep Congress going, studying manure, it seems, will be on the agenda for quite a while.

[bdonees]

Would Obama just SHUT UP. Everytime he talks the stock market dives like a rock...

[blacklab]

Originally Posted by Lesley

I find your way of wording things to be very amusing

I agree with this about Cashpool.

History proves that Reagan's economics did really good things for our Country.

His administration ran the debt up from $1 trillion to $3.5 trillion. If he helped the economy, then it was done by overspending tax payer money like never before seen in history. If it was a good thing for Reagan to do then it makes no sense to say it is a bad thing for Obama to try it. You can't have it both ways.

It might be stupid to spend a million dollars to study manure or whatever, but it is not like that money just goes into a black hole or something. It will create a lot of job positions and people in those positions will spend money, which will create more jobs and so on. Equipment will need to be purchased to study the manure, which will help the company that sells that equipment, etc.

I don't really know how much money the government should spend or what they should spend it on, but I think people would have a clearer idea if there was no such thing as republicans or democrats.

[lgw3]

Obama's speeches remind me of the speeches of that ex-house painter's speeches in Germany back in the 1930's! A wolf in sheep's clothing!

[johnpunkin]

Obama wasn't my choice in the election , seemed he was writing checks his butt couldn't cash . But now that he's in I'm hoping he succeeds , and excells. I'm behind him now. Theres no reason to cry over what didn't happen ( I didn't put alot of stock in Mcain either) , but we can put hope in what we've got. Obama has my best wishes . Go Obama!!!

[shanladams]

Originally Posted by Lesley

When Obama took office we had a 1 Trillion dollar deficit. Now, due to his "stimulus package" the deficit is 2 Trillion with billions added at a daily and alarming rate.

This stimulus package included, among other things, 1.8 million dollars to study "swine odors" in Iowa. Pig farts. Not one of our representative who voted for this bill even demanded the time to read and understand all that it included. Shame on them! Shame on ALL of them!

We as Americans deserve better and need to educate ourselves, stand up and demand better. There are people losing their jobs and homes and living in the streets while our government allocates our hard earned tax dollars to bail out the banks and drive us, and our children, even deeper into a quagmire of endless debt.

Shameful and tragic.

Originally Posted by Lesley

I'll dig up more info on the "Pork Odor and manure Management earmark...

OK, here we go...

From Associated Content/ConnieWilson

$1.8 Million Dollars to Ames, Courtesy of Tom Harkin, to Study Swine S***....Errr, Excrement

Jindahl might well have earned some points from Republican detractors by mentioning just a few of the earmarks that seem to have crept into the stimulus bill, such as the following:

1) $200,000 to Los Angeles to study tattoo removal

2) $443,000 to study beavers in Massachusetts

3) $2.2 million for a grape center in New York

4) $127,000 to study blackbird management in Kansas.

5) $1 million, 45,000 to study Mormon crickets.

6) $1 million to North Pole, Alaska, for a water treatment plant.

7) $3 million for a poultry study proposed by Saxby Chambliss and Kingson.

8) $1.8 million shepherded through to Ames, Iowa (Iowa State University) by Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa to study swine odor and manure management.

As a $410 billion-dollar bill is now pending to keep Congress going, studying manure, it seems, will be on the agenda for quite a while.

You can't believe every blog by a journalist on the internet. Here is info about the website her article is housed on About Associated Content and here is her bio Connie Wilson\'s Content Producer Page - Associated Content

She's just a writer blowing steam about a topic to make money, just like all media are.

As for the items that are spoken about in the bill, I have read it and there is nothing specific in there for any of those things. The money is allotted to specific agencies ie: EPA, Army Corps of Engineers, Dept of the Interior, Dept of Agriculture, NOAA, NASA, all of the military branches, etc etc. These organizations get requests from states and state parks or whatever for something that needs to be done or researched. These organizations decide with some sort of bid system which projects get money and which ones don't. There is a lot of stuff in there about what agencies can't use it on but not much on what they should specifically use it on.

I am speaking from a purely employment side of this. Just go to USAjobs.com. They are one of the biggest federal employment search website in the country. There are thousands of jobs on there before this stimulus came out and before the financial crisis came around. Our national parks need caring for, our forests need people looking out for forest fires, our agriculture depends on things like the cow bird removal program that Michigan was hiring for recently to protect fishing populations, or the nuisance deer and bear control people that Virginia was hiring for to protect the populations of certain animals there, or the hundreds of exotic plant prevention jobs that all states hire for to prevent the spread of killer exotic plants from ruining crops and agriculture. Hubby's employer cut back on his hours because of the economy so we have been scouring this site for a couple of months now and we have watched it for a few years because he wants to be in a biology/wildlife field. He is hoping to get a job like some of these temporary jobs on here because once you get your foot in the door you can get a permanent job more easily without having a degree. They pay well too. I haven't seen many jobs for under 10/hr.

My point is just because a state may have asked for funding to get pig secretions tested doesn't mean they will get it. There are plenty more important things that those agencies can use that money for. And its not even in the stimulus bill. The only thing in the bill in regards to things like that is which agency gets how much money. Every state and city was supposed to hold up projects that they needed funding for that they could have ready now. That doesn't mean that every project will get the money nor does it mean that Obama tells the Governor of that state that he should use the money for one thing over another.

If anyone would like to read the stimulus bill for themselves to determine the truth from exaggerations that have been going around here is a link: ARRA: Public Review There is even a comment box for you to address concerns or make comments about the bill after you have read it.

I heard one congressman say that the bill creates "work" not "jobs". I am sorry but work is a job and even if it is temporary it gives you skills and experience to get a permanent job. It also gives you income and money that you can use to pay your bills, but consumer products and pay taxes with. All Pat would need to do is work 2 of the temporary appointments that are available and he would be eligible not only for the next federal level of pay (which is usually about 2-$4/hr more) but for most of the permanent jobs that hire in at that level. The only reason he is looking at temp jobs at parks out of state is because in Florida because of the sensitive nature of our parks and ecosystem they never hire without experience or a bachelors degree with experience.

If the private sector is laying off people and not hiring whats the problem with the Federal govt hiring even if it is temporary. Hundreds of thousands of people already work for the Fed govt that you may not realize.

It comes down to how the agencies and governors handle the money. Just wait for a couple of months and watch the local arguments start about which city's bridge gets funding and which one doesn't. Is the bridge that is half finished in my town going to get finished or is a bridge down in Melbourne going to get finished instead. Does I-95 get the money or I-75. Does this elementary school get repaired or does this one. I also recommend anyone bookmark this website: Recovery.gov. I urge for people to watch where the money goes themselves before listening to the media. I also urge everyone to keep on their state govt toes to make sure they allocate the money to places where it should go. You may not feel like you have much of a voice in the national govt but you should have a voice in your state govt. I personally don't care much for Charlie Christ. I miss Jeb Bush, surprisingly. I am impressed with his guts though, to stand up against his party to do what he thinks is best for our state. I feel bad for residents of Louisiana or South Carolina or Minnesota or Alaska, who have naive governors that refuse to take the money just so they can stay on the conservative republican white list to be the nominee in 2012.

He's only been in for a month and the bill just got passed. We haven't even given it a chance to start working yet. Its better than 800 Billion in just tax cuts like the republicans wanted. I actually heard one congressman say he wanted to split the 800 Billion up into checks for every tax payer and send it out. Granted we personally used our stimulus checks last year for stuff because our credit cards were paid off and bills caught up with our tax money, but in this economy people are so behind any stimulus checks like that would get spent to pay down credit card debt and bills to creditors that are going after people. I personally would like that Somewhere around 3k check but I don't think it would work to stimulate the economy. It wouldn't make companies rehire all the people they fired. And it wouldn't create any jobs for the millions of unemployed people to work at until the private market starts hiring again.

I am more worried about these banks that were bailed out last year that are using the money for bonuses and vacations. What are they doing for us?

I wish more people would be hoping that he succeeds despite the fact that they don't like him or democrats, instead of hoping that he fails just to say I told you so.

I haven't seen anyone come up with a better idea. And I didn't see any republicans giving any better ideas, except give more tax cuts, when the bill was being made. I saw them all over the news shows saying all of the negative things about the bill but not one of them said, I have an idea of how to make it better. And on top of that many of those republicans who openly slammed the bill went home and bragged to their constituents that this part and that part was their contribution to help them. I saw lots of house republicans say that they weren't allowed to give their input in writing the bill but I didn't see them giving their ideas and promoting them to the people or others to try and get support. If it was such a good idea that they had and they really cared about the people they should have made any effort to get their ideas out there.

Oh and how can Bobby Jindhal have a problem with natural disaster research in general or accepting funds for his state when we are still paying billions of dollars to his state because of the lack of planning in New Orleans before Katrina. I guess Federal money is only good when the state doesn't have to take responsibility for it after the fact. Until this weekend he still has National Guard troops down there helping the police dept that doesn't have enough funding.

As for the person talking about the stock market dropping. How much of that should really be contributed to what Obama says. Would the stock market go down anyways because of the worsening of the economy. The other day I was watching stock and it was going up after the budget was announced but started going down after GM announced their 9.6B loss for the quarter. The market is too biased on too many variables to contribute it solely to what Obama says. And besides the fat cat investors getting scared and cashing in their stock should be testimony to the fact that they are scared that their way of life riding on the working people's backs is over and that they aren't going to be able to benefit at others expense anymore.

Sorry Lesley that I went off on a tangent while quoting your post. Every time I would type one thing something else would come to mind to add. It was not directed at you specifically, just my thoughts on certain things being said about the stimulus package. I don't think it is perfect, but I haven't seen anyone else come up with anything better. And I hope with all hope that it works. And I will watch recovery.gov and see if pig gas ends up actually getting funding ;)

Happy night to everyone :)