FreeLunchRoom - The #1 Freebie Trading Forum on the Internet! » Having Fun & Socializing » Break Room / Off-Topic » Regional Chatter

[CashPool]

Wow Shanladams that was quite a post. Just for the record everyone, I wouldn't take too much of anything I have to say about all this too seriously. If you read my profile you'll know why . Just kidding. But anyway, when I have a minute I'll investigate some of your references Shanladams. The truth is, I personally have some deeply rooted lingering cynicisms about politicians and who they snuggle up to that I just can't ever seem to completely shake. But, I agree with you, my cynicism aside, green as he is, we need to give this man a chance. It's too early in the game to call it yet. As far as the stock market is concerned, it's been a bit sideways for a few months now. It's not really up or down right now as far as trend. I trade on a regular basis. Took control of my investments a long time ago because I got tired of all the crappy advice out there. I make money whether it goes up, down, or sideways. I'm just not too concerned about the stock market personally.

You know, I got some of the best advice I've ever been given about managing all the crap life throws us from a seriously stoned surfer at Pipeline in Hawaii many years ago. He said "You can't control the wave, dude. Just your position on top of it." I think he kinda had a good point, there.

[shanladams]

Originally Posted by CashPool

Wow Shanladams that was quite a post. Just for the record everyone, I wouldn't take too much of anything I have to say about all this too seriously. If you read my profile you'll know why . Just kidding. But anyway, when I have a minute I'll investigate some of your references Shanladams. The truth is, I personally have some deeply rooted lingering cynicisms about politicians and who they snuggle up to that I just can't ever seem to completely shake. But, I agree with you, my cynicism aside, green as he is, we need to give this man a chance. It's too early in the game to call it yet. As far as the stock market is concerned, it's been a bit sideways for a few months now. It's not really up or down right now as far as trend. I trade on a regular basis. Took control of my investments a long time ago because I got tired of all the crappy advice out there. I make money whether it goes up, down, or sideways. I'm just not too concerned about the stock market personally.

You know, I got some of the best advice I've ever been given about managing all the crap life throws us from a seriously stoned surfer at Pipeline in Hawaii many years ago. He said "You can't control the wave, dude. Just your position on top of it." I think he kinda had a good point, there.

Lmao that is funny and so true. I don't really trade at all but I do watch the stock market in general and I don't see anything that specifically marks the trend as being the fault of Obama. Shouldn't investors have learned their lesson during the depression. If you go crazy and sell everything stock will go down, then people will freak and stock will go down more.

I am cynical about politicians too, especially congress who is supposed to be the people in Washington representing our interests and they don't. For our sakes though I hope he can follow through with some of the stuff that he has talked about and I hope that the stimulus works.

Oh and I did some research to see where all of this talk about pigs and stuff is coming from about the stimulus bill and these supposed earmarks aren't in the stimulus package. They are in the spending bill that congress is working on right now. The 400 something billion one. Congress hasn't even finished it yet let alone has Obama looked at it. Congress may just be testing to see if they can get away with pork even though he said he would be working to stop pork. I would hope that once it is done and he does look at it he makes good on his promise to get rid of pork.

[CashPool]

Yeah, the pig farts and the pig crap are actually two different issues. From what I've read the pig fart issue came up in conjunction with a recent Supreme Court decision, massachusetts v. EPA, I think. And the decision ruled against the EPA's assertion that they didn't have the authority to regulate, I think greenhouse emissions or something like that. Anyway, the ruling says they do have the authority and some folks are all up in arms because folks like RFK, Jr. or someoby want to study pig and cow farts now because they fall under the extremely broad coverage of "regulation of greenhouse gasses" that has now been forced upon the EPA. So, yeah, the pig farts are what some will be battling to have put in the next bill. Before you know it, we'll all be required to buy a fart meter and all us SDB's lettin' loose five times a day unbeknownst to the rest of the world will be all over U-Tube. Folks will make a game of snap-shotting everybody's fart meter and uploading it for the world to see. We'll have the fart paparazzi. OMG! I wish my grandaddy was alive to see all this. Or, maybe not, he'd have a stroke.

[Lesley]

Let me just point out that the pig farts/manure issue was simply an example of what I think is wrong with the stimulus package (pork...get it?). There are literally thousands of examples I could have used.

While I do think it is important that "something be done" our elected officials should be taking more time to be sure that the "right thing is being done".

Originally Posted by blacklab

His administration ran the debt up from $1 trillion to $3.5 trillion. If he helped the economy, then it was done by overspending tax payer money like never before seen in history. If it was a good thing for Reagan to do then it makes no sense to say it is a bad thing for Obama to try it. You can't have it both ways.

As I have said more than once, I am not completely clear on Reaganomics. It was well before my time and not the focus of this discussion. My complaint is with our current elected officials who would, and did, pass a bill to spend 780+ Billion dollars without demanding time to read and understand it. I wouldn't even be that irresponsible about buying sun screen for my kid. I've said it before and I'll say it again, WE need to deal with where we are NOW and we need to demand more from those in office.

It might be stupid to spend a million dollars to study manure or whatever, but it is not like that money just goes into a black hole or something. It will create a lot of job positions and people in those positions will spend money, which will create more jobs and so on. Equipment will need to be purchased to study the manure, which will help the company that sells that equipment, etc.

It seems like a more local/state issue, not a federal one. When I can smell pig shi_ in Southern California I'll be glad to pitch in. Until then, I have a mortgage to pay and a kid to put through college. It just doesn't pass the "smell" test for me!

I don't really know how much money the government should spend or what they should spend it on, but I think people would have a clearer idea if there was no such thing as republicans or democrats.

That's why we elect officials to send to Washington. It's supposed to be their jobs to know and do the right thing. If they can't or will not then they need to be exposed and replaced.

Originally Posted by shanladams

You can't believe every blog by a journalist on the internet. Here is info about the website her article is housed on About Associated Content and here is her bio Connie Wilson\'s Content Producer Page - Associated Content

She's just a writer blowing steam about a topic to make money, just like all media are.

Hers was simply one example that I pulled off of the net. There are plenty there, as well as in other forms of press including my local paper, that I could have used.

Sorry Lesley that I went off on a tangent while quoting your post. Every time I would type one thing something else would come to mind to add. It was not directed at you specifically, just my thoughts on certain things being said about the stimulus package. I don't think it is perfect, but I haven't seen anyone else come up with anything better. And I hope with all hope that it works. And I will watch recovery.gov and see if pig gas ends up actually getting funding ;)

Happy night to everyone :)

You are amazing and your post (although I didn't quote it entirely here) was both informed and informative, even if I didn't agree with it completely. I'm so glad that SOMEONE has taken the time to read the damn thing! Intelligent political debate and the exchange of ideas is what SHOULD be going on in Washington, not just here in FLR! I look forward to more of your thoughts on events to come.

Originally Posted by CashPool

Yeah, the pig farts and the pig crap are actually two different issues. From what I've read the pig fart issue came up in conjunction with a recent Supreme Court decision, massachusetts v. EPA, I think. And the decision ruled against the EPA's assertion that they didn't have the authority to regulate, I think greenhouse emissions or something like that. Anyway, the ruling says they do have the authority and some folks are all up in arms because folks like RFK, Jr. or someoby want to study pig and cow farts now because they fall under the extremely broad coverage of "regulation of greenhouse gasses" that has now been forced upon the EPA. So, yeah, the pig farts are what some will be battling to have put in the next bill. Before you know it, we'll all be required to buy a fart meter and all us SDB's lettin' loose five times a day unbeknownst to the rest of the world will be all over U-Tube. Folks will make a game of snap-shotting everybody's fart meter and uploading it for the world to see. We'll have the fart paparazzi. OMG! I wish my grandaddy was alive to see all this. Or, maybe not, he'd have a stroke.

YOU, dare I say it, are a breath of...fresh air?!?

And my friend bdonees who I tried to quote here...sad but true, sad but true...

[ellemrak]

Originally Posted by blacklab

What was Dick Cheney's quote again?

"Reagan showed us that the national debt does not matter.”

Originally Posted by qmiller

I agree Shontel. Change is inevitable, with this new economy will come a new way of thinking and hopefully, a NEW way of doing things. We need to adapt ourselves for the future of this nation. Until, the majority gets comfortable with us actually having our first black president, someone's always going to be trying to place blame on Barack (for one thing or another).

I am just so ecstatic that this president isn't so concerned with the power he holds, but the things he can get done with that power. I'm happy that the president is someone that most (average) people can relate too and not just the rich 2% of the world...lol. Just my 2 cents!

Oh and just remember...it took Bush 8 years to get us into this mess, it's gonna take some time and a whole lot of effort from both us Americans, and our president to get things back to "normal"--(whatever that means)

Couldn't have said it better myself. And by the way, look at history...when Hoover was in office and the stock market was crumbling, the gov. did nothing...look where that got them! Big, Fat, Great Depression! Wasn't it the Bush admin. who stated "...the fundamentals of the economy are strong." a week or so before the collapse of financial giants? Yeah, they knew what was going on! This gov. needs to step in or we will repeat history yet AGAIN!

[$formyFamily]

Originally Posted by Lesley

When Obama took office we had a 1 Trillion dollar deficit. Now, due to his "stimulus package" the deficit is 2 Trillion with billions added at a daily and alarming rate.

This stimulus package included, among other things, 1.8 million dollars to study "swine odors" in Iowa. Pig farts. Not one of our representative who voted for this bill even demanded the time to read and understand all that it included. Shame on them! Shame on ALL of them!

We as Americans deserve better and need to educate ourselves, stand up and demand better. There are people losing their jobs and homes and living in the streets while our government allocates our hard earned tax dollars to bail out the banks and drive us, and our children, even deeper into a quagmire of endless debt.

Shameful and tragic.

Amen! Obama is masturbating the middle class and the poor with increasing domestic spending, but as you indicated above, it's still constitutes spending and ongoing debt.

We will continue to operate in deficit spending whether the spending is foreign or domestic. All he is doing is shifting the deficit to domestic spending, as opposed to spending OUR TAX DOLLARS outside our country. Please remember, a deficit is STILL a deficit whether it is created inside this country, or outside the usA.

Originally Posted by stokesa42

He has made many rookie mistakes and is working on bringing the people of this country to our knees so we will be begging for the government to give us everything we need.

And what a sad state of affairs that will create. Since when was it the feds responsibility to provide our needs for us?! What has happened to self-reliance and the fighting back bone of Americans? Has it gone down the crapper?

I feel things in this country won't change from the top down, it will change from the bottom up.

But the good news for him is he can blame it all on Bush.

Bush is like the devil, he's one of the greatest scapegoats ever invented! lol

It is all about CONTROL for this administration. He feels no shame Lesley. He is doing just what he and his cronies have been planning for years. It is a liberal conspiracy that has been perpetrated through fear and lies. Sorry all of you Obamamaniacs!

I'm not familar with all of the politics here, but your rationality appears to make sense.

[$formyFamily]

Originally Posted by ellemrak

Couldn't have said it better myself. And by the way, look at history...when Hoover was in office and the stock market was crumbling, the gov. did nothing...look where that got them! Big, Fat, Great Depression! Wasn't it the Bush admin. who stated "...the fundamentals of the economy are strong." a week or so before the collapse of financial giants? Yeah, they knew what was going on! This gov. needs to step in or we will repeat history yet AGAIN!

The federal govt didnt create the depression of the 30's, the federal reserve bankers did. They called in allll the loans and created quite a mess in the process. The great depression of the 30's was artificially manufactured by the fed reserve bankers, and NOT by the federal govt.

[shanladams]

Originally Posted by Lesley

Let me just point out that the pig farts/manure issue was simply an example of what I think is wrong with the stimulus package (pork...get it?). There are literally thousands of examples I could have used.

While I do think it is important that "something be done" our elected officials should be taking more time to be sure that the "right thing is being done".



You are amazing and your post (although I didn't quote it entirely here) was both informed and informative, even if I didn't agree with it completely. I'm so glad that SOMEONE has taken the time to read the damn thing! Intelligent political debate and the exchange of ideas is what SHOULD be going on in Washington, not just here in FLR! I look forward to more of your thoughts on events to come.

I think you missed it in my last post. I did some research and there is some confusion. There is an earmark floating around for those things but they are not in the stimulus bill. They are in a bill that the house and senate are trying to pass right now. It hasn't finished in congress yet or gotten to Obama for him to look at yet. Hopefully he will clear it up and get rid of the earmarks like he has said he would in the campaign. The bill in question is the one in the news referred to as the 419B spending bill or something like that. Why on earth they think it appropriate to create a spending bill right after passing a stimulus bill is beyond me and kind of stupid in my opinion but that is where it is at. Don't know why it keeps getting mixed up with the stimulus bill.

I too am glad that we all can have a civil conversation without bashing and hating on people.

[ellemrak]

Originally Posted by $formyFamily

The federal govt didnt create the depression of the 30's, the federal reserve bankers did. They called in allll the loans and created quite a mess in the process. The great depression of the 30's was artificially manufactured by the fed reserve bankers, and NOT by the federal govt.

That's correct, and the govt. did nothing to prevent the collapse. As a matter of fact, they exacerbated the problem. The causes of the Great Depression are similar to the causes of our current recession; poor oversight, and greed...in this case, by banks and hedge funds who bought mortgage backed securities on the secondary market and then freaked when the market began to slow, realizing they were going to lose big. Also, mortages written for people who could not afford them (again, poor oversight) and ARM mortgages that promised homeowners, who could afford their mortgages originally, great savings...only did they find later they could not refinance that ARM and their payments went sky high. This led to banks to stop lending as they did not want to inherit these "toxic loans". Liquidity was a problem in 1932 and it is a problem now.

Originally Posted by shanladams

I think you missed it in my last post. I did some research and there is some confusion. There is an earmark floating around for those things but they are not in the stimulus bill. They are in a bill that the house and senate are trying to pass right now. It hasn't finished in congress yet or gotten to Obama for him to look at yet. Hopefully he will clear it up and get rid of the earmarks like he has said he would in the campaign. The bill in question is the one in the news referred to as the 419B spending bill or something like that. Why on earth they think it appropriate to create a spending bill right after passing a stimulus bill is beyond me and kind of stupid in my opinion but that is where it is at. Don't know why it keeps getting mixed up with the stimulus bill.

I too am glad that we all can have a civil conversation without bashing and hating on people.

Nicely said!

[CashPool]

That's correct, and the govt. did nothing to prevent the collapse. As a matter of fact, they exacerbated the problem. The causes of the Great Depression are similar to the causes of our current recession; poor oversight, and greed...in this case, by banks and hedge funds who bought mortgage backed securities on the secondary market and then freaked when the market began to slow, realizing they were going to lose big. Also, mortages written for people who could not afford them (again, poor oversight) and ARM mortgages that promised homeowners, who could afford their mortgages originally, great savings...only did they find later they could not refinance that ARM and their payments went sky high. This led to banks to stop lending as they did not want to inherit these "toxic loans". Liquidity was a problem in 1932 and it is a problem now.

Um, that's true but there's a bit more to the story that a lot of people don't seem to know. And it's that bit more that's the real kicker here. It has to do with financial managers placing bets (and yes, I do mean bets, not trades) on whether or not "commercial paper" would fail. When a really big business needs a short-term loan, they go to what's known as the "commercial paper" desk at their financial institution. They tell the commercial paper desk how much they need and the commercial paper desk floats the loan and then, if I'm remembering right, underwrites a bond that is then sold to the public to cover the loan. What a lot of people don't know is that there's a little known part of this whole businesses where certain huge insurance companies offer to insure the bond, just in case it fails. Traditionally it's just been a way for large insurance companies to eek out a little more profit because, since bonds for businesses who have good enough credit to get commercial paper in the first place almost never fail the insurance is really cheap. Nevertheless, really huge money managers who bought a "commercial paper" bond sometimes bought the insurance too, just in case.

Now, THIS is what got that system in trouble. Are you ready? Brace yourself! ONE WAS NOT REQUIRED TO FIRST OWN THE ACTUAL COMMERCIAL PAPER BOND IN ORDER TO PURCHASE THE INSURANCE ON THAT BOND. Oh, yes, it's true! How would you like to be able to do that? Couldn't we all just get rich in just a few short years? You know what I mean, don't you? You know, your old Aunt Sally, the one you just know is going to kick the bucket, surely within the next five years? Or better yet, how bout that old, mean-ass crotchity next-door neighbor. Wouldn't it be great if you could purchase a really, really, really cheap $10 million life insurance policy on these old geezers and just bide your time at that eazy, peazy minimum wage job knowin' that in a few short years you'll be livin' on easy street?

Oh, and need we mention that when the need to regulate this type of insurance business was brought before our congressmen, our good ol' financial managers actually convinced them that is just wasn't necessary. "After all, this isn't something to be sold to the general public. We're all big boys and girls in this business, we know how to handle ourselves. We understand the businesses and we're good folks too, you know. It's not like we go around screwin' each other over or nothin'" Uh-huh.

So, anyway, to finish off the story, what happened is that hedge fund managers knew good-and-d***ed-well these banks had scads of really shaky debt, AKA sub-prime mortgages, and "junk-bonds" floating around that backed them, on their books. So, even though these hedge fund managers didn't actually own the bond they decided to purchase the really, really cheap insurance on them. When it became clear that these bonds were going to have to be written off, in other-words the bonds had failed, hedge-fund managers were standing in line for their huge payday (The entire value of the insured bonds). AIG had doled out more insurance than it had the money to pay for. There was no law saying it couldn't do that. This is what drove AIG into the ground. After that, banks got scared and stopped floating "commercial paper". The financial system locked up. Our economy is dependent upon the circulation of money.

So, there's the whole story folks. And, yes, it had everything to do with the government not instituting proper regulations in the first place.

As far as Reaganomics is concerned, you know, maybe all them folks thought they really did just have a great new way to run the economy, but I still think we're paying for all that now. Alan Greenspan was an Ayn Rand alcolyte, you know, a part of her "collective" as she called it. And, it's not like I think the woman didn't have a little good sense and had a few good ideas but, when I read her writings, I really think the woman was desperately trying to nut-up to the Carnegies and the Rockerfellers. I'm pretty sure they ignored her for a reason. I can just see them now, behind closed doors: "Ha! Ha! That crazy b**** really thinks we're some kinda saints doin' some noble deed for the world. If she only knew that all we want is to own it all, baby. Ha! Ha! She's actually swallowed our pitch, hook, line and sinker. And she's taking it to the world! And it ain't costin' us a dime! Free publicity! Woo Hoo!" Aw, geez, there it is again, my inner cynic. Get back, boy! Get back! Now, d*** it! I mean it! Get back! Whew! There, now. That's better.

It's not that I don't believe humans have a huge capacity for nobility, it's just that I know that they also have a huge capacity for being otherwise, for whatever reason. Our laws need to keep a keen eye to feeding one and starving the other.