Identifying the Scam *** Updated ***

[marbleeye]

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to identify any particular trader(s). It is understood that some of the information within this post is debatable. This post is meant to be used for information and topic of discussion.

The purpose of this post is to give some clarification and information on the types of scams and how to identify them. In the past few weeks we have all felt the affects of the ever increasing amount of scammers. Some have felt it more heavily then others. I think the amount of scammers and the fraud that is caused by these selfish individuals have seriously damaged the freesite referral trading industry. It will be up to veteran traders to work with freesite owners to reduce the amount of fraud so this business can survive. I know some freesites have offered rewards for turning in known scammers and the individuals that consistently fraud the system. So I have gathered some information to help in identifying a scam.

The go green scammer (For traders working method 2 this is the most common type of scammer)
This is a scammer who is looking for referral traders paying on green and paying quick on green. The scammer will browse the forum looking for a high green paying trader. They will contact you via PM or directly over IM. They rarely will create posts or reply to a trade thread, for this will bring attention to themselves. These types of scammers are usually prepared. They may know ahead of time which sites and offers they can go green on quickly. This usually includes sites that require very few offer completions to green. So, they will seek out the highest payer for those sites. These scammers may have multiple usernames or email addresses. They may be working within a group of other scammers. These scammers usually go red by committing offer fraud or supplying false information.
How to Identify: They may contact you via IM without you inviting them to do so. They may ask for money upfront. They may try and get you to up your payout on a certain site. They usually do not have verified paypal accounts however lately these scammers do have verified accounts. They may have email accounts with several numbers in them. If they have signed up as a referral on multiple sites they might sign up with different email accounts on each. If these scammers post on the forum they may post that they are only looking to go green on certain sites. Usually a scammer will have very little personal information in there profile and if they do have information it is more then likely false. These scammers are usually pretty impatient. They don’t want to chat about personal stuff. They want to go green and get paid. They are usually very impatient about payment. They don’t stick around to long under just one username.

The non paying scammer (For traders working Method 1 this is the most common type of scammer)
These I refer to as the sharks. These scammers are looking to buy your green but have no intention on paying you for that green. These scammers will create posts and create the illusion that they are a helpful user on the forum. They may even have a pretty good TR (trade record) or itrader number.
How to Identify: They will spam any new user via PM, IM , email etc. They may make claims that they train newbies but they are very impatient with new members. If they do help a new member they will usually want to tell them which offers to do so they go green. There profile may be setup to log on to the forum undetected. These scammers will try to avoid setting up a trade on the forum they would prefer to just work the trade through PMs or IMs.

The under paying scammer : This is a scam directed towards new members. The scam is to take advantage of a new member not knowing what they should be paid on green. Before accepting offers please shop around and see what other members are paying for the same sites. Here is a link to give you an idea of what you should be paid : **NEW** What you should be paid for your referral **** You should not accept $15 to go green on Sony.V-bux. This one will probably be debated whether it is a scam or not. But if you deliberately take advantage of another trader so you can profit that to me is a scam.

The multi site payout scam This is a scam that I have seen a few times. It is directed more towards new members. The offer is for a high payout ($100, $120 etc.) multi-site green. The scam is to pay $100 for greens on 5 sites. The scammer will only pay when all 5 sites are green. So, if the referral goes green on three sites but has problems on the other two they are made to believe that they didn’t finish the trade so they will not be paid anything. Not even for the three sites that they did go green on. With all the issues with offer crediting lately what are the percentages of going green on 5 different sites and not having any problems? Good Luck

The green 4 green not really scam : This scam is a scam that has been going on quite a lot in the past few months. This is when a user typically with an established TR seeks out a user with a lower TR to set up a green 4 green trade. The lower TR member goes green first. Then when it is time for the higher TR member to go green this member comes back and says they can not go green do to there is no offers for them to do or some such non-sense. The higher TR member will then say I will pay the average payout for the green they received. There is some debate whether this is a scam or not. This to me is a scam because the average green payout is usually half of the payout per referral. So, the lower TR trader only gets paid half of what was agreed upon.

The pay upfront/auction for a friend scam : This is usually a well-respected member with a fairly high TR that has decided to go evil for whatever reason. They will post a trading thread stating that they want to go green for paypal cash, but there's a catch. They say that the green is coming from a friend or relative, they aren't the ones going green (or so they say). The trader will usually make outrageous demands and impose all sorts of unreasonable terms such as high green payment or up front payment. The scammer will either take the money and run (not provide a green), or the green will go red and by the time you can PM them about it, the "friend" or "relative" is long gone. Often times they can even talk themselves out of a ban by blaming the third party or based on their high TR and prior reputation

The innocent scammer : Here is a common one that happens quite a bit. This is usually a new member that goes green and gets paid a few times. Then the user makes a mistake. They violate a freesite’s TOS and they go red. They may have been using a proxy or inadvertently committed offer fraud. They didn’t knowingly commit the fraud. But they will not pay the green payment back because they believe the green payment is to pay for the offers that they completed. They don’t understand that they are being paid for there green referral. These users will get frustrated and disappear. I’m sorry if you have been paid on green and you go red and you don’t pay back the money that is a scam.

The I have no money to pay you scam : Title says it all. This is a person who is buying greens and advertises that they pay on green. Then when someone does go green for them they claim they have no money to pay for the green. They then try and buy time and ask if they can pay on approval. If they are a legit trader they should have a verified paypal account so they should have overdraft protection. This may be debated if this is a scam or not. I’m sorry if you actively seek referrals and you offer payment upon green, then you should be prepared to pay on green. Another point if you offer a bonus for a same day green you should be prepared to pay the same day you receive the green.

The referral high-jacking scam : This is one that happens more then you think. You just don't see exposed in the Lunch Theft Forum because usually some one goes green and is paid. Let me explain. This scam happens when the scammer watches other trader's trade threads for new members replying to the thread. The scammer may see that the trader who's thread was posted in is not presently online so they contact the new member who posted, and gets the new member to trade with them. Now in most cases the scammer will pay the new member for any green they deliver but to me this is still a scam. The trader who's thread was replied to just got scammed out of a referral. If you post in another trader's trade thread and shortly after you are PMed by a totally different trader, this is probably what is happening.



A Simple Definition of Scam

Scam : knowingly deceiving another trader and profiting from the deception

[gregmc]

Someone tried to get me with the first one last week.

Wanted to know how quickly I paid. I assured them as soon as they were green, they would get their money.

After they started, I was browsing the lunch theft forum and there they were. A site owner posted that they went red on them for supplying false info.

I contacted the site that the person was doing and asked them to check them out and why and sure enough, they were supplying false info. I saved me $50. This person has since been banned.

Now, I am more careful about people who want to know if they will get paid today and are in a hurry and choose to do one of my high paying (2 or 3 credit) sites.

[shellie_wnj]

WOW! I was almost scammed twice and didn't even know it. Lady luck was on my side, or is it beginners luck? I wish I still had the PM's to proove it. Someone wanted to go green for green, signed up and said he did offers, that I should do the same. I waited and waited and waited for them to credit and they never did (or maybe he never did the offers?) so I didn't green for him, he has since disappeared... Also, I almost did one of those high paying multiple site offers, but got nervous at the last minute for no apparent reason, and didn't decide to commit to the trade. i ended up working with someone who had multiple sites who paid per site, then gave a bonus for completing a certain number. Just WOW at all the types of scams!

[Suzee]

This great information, I'm still somewhat new and will use this very well. thanks again

[Olo420]

Great thread, I have been hit with one type of this scam, three times since I started here (I sometimes feel it is the same person). Thanks for this.

[Abigail]

ok...you started out by saying that it is all debatable and it sure is.

I disagree with the "underpaying scam"...everyone has the right to sell their green at whatever price they want. It is the responsibility of the newbie to READ!! Walmart can sell a shirt for $5 and kmart sell that same shirt for $16. It is the responsibility of the consumer to look around. When Walmart sells thing cheap, everyone loves it EXCEPT Kmart right?? But they never turn around and claim that it is a scam.

I also disagree with the "multi-site scam"...I do agree that it is not such a good idea but it is also NOT a scam.

We all make trade agreements and when both parties agree, something only becomes a SCAM if the terms of trade are broken.

[marbleeye]

Originally Posted by Abigail

I disagree with the "underpaying scam"...everyone has the right to sell their green at whatever price they want. It is the responsibility of the newbie to READ!! Walmart can sell a shirt for $5 and kmart sell that same shirt for $16. It is the responsibility of the consumer to look around.

You are right you can pay what you want. It is up to the referral do check out the going payout for green on a certain site. But if you knowingly take advantage of a member and under pay them for there green that should be considered a scam.

Originally Posted by Abigail

I also disagree with the "multi-site scam"...I do agree that it is not such a good idea but it is also NOT a scam.
We all make trade agreements and when both parties agree, something only becomes a SCAM if the terms of trade are broken.

So you are saying that if you set up a trade for 4 different sites and you will pay a total of $80 for those 4 greens ($20 per site) your referral only goes green on three of the sites and for some reason can not go green on the forth you would not pay them $60?

[Abigail]

Marbleeye, I know several reputable traders that have been around a long time that pay under what some ppl "recommend". So for you to consider it a scam is appauling.

Also, I ended off by saying a scam is only a scam if the terms of trade are broken. I would not encourage someone to do the "multi-site" thing but if they agree to do it, they agree. And no it is not a scam. If they only go green on three and not five sites then they themselves have broken the terms of agreement.

Lastly, on a good note, I appreciate the post. It is refreshing. I too dont want anyone to be scammed. I just dont think those 2 should be up there.

[Olo420]

I see what you you mean now. That would be a total scam. If someone is greening for you and can't on the last one or any in between it is just reasonable to pay for what they did and any newb would naturally assume that was the deal.

You see, I have trouble thinking about these things because my mind does not work that way. I want to see others happy, not upset. I couldn't run any of thee scams because it just isn't in me.

The no thread reply PM is the most common I see here. And they seem to be dense or acting that way by not confirming TM trades and refuse to post a reply to the traders thread but act as if they don't know how. Then they green really fast and come calling for payment. Luckily, I have some help on this with good admins who IM the red quickly to me and an angel at paypal who holds the scammer's funds immediately once I realize I have been scammed. :P

If any of you experience this, escalate the paypal claim immediately and send the ADMINS reply to paypal in the escalation process. You will get your money back if you stated the terms in the payment.

Originally Posted by marbleeye

You are right you can pay what you want. It is up to the referral do check out the going payout for green on a certain site. But if you knowingly take advantage of a member and under pay them for there green that should be considered a scam.



So you are saying that if you set up a trade for 4 different sites and you will pay a total of $80 for those 4 greens ($20 per site) your referral only goes green on three of the sites and for some reason can not go green on the forth you would not pay them $60?

[taterbaby]

well i think the point of this is to educate people -lots of newbies dont realize what they are agreeing to and thus end up getting taken as in the case of multiple trades marbleeye was describing
and yes you can offer whatever payout you want and some poor newbie will bite but later on when they find out they were lowballed its not going to help your reputation plus its just not fair because again the newbies dont know and so they cant make an informed choice